bittah.com!~ CBs T2 demo conversion project

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Post » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:48 am

CBs T2 demo conversion project

Thought I'd start a new thread with the demo conversions rather than spreading them out over 5 different threads. Will just update this one in the future.

I've got about 160 different recordings done at 4K 60FPS now.

Managed to get 36 demos of the Tribes 2 World Championships (and still in the process of trying to convince a USA West player to provide their recordings for the infamous quarter final vs Australia match where we lost on flag touches).

Hoping to find at least one recording of each of the different gametypes (or as many as possible, I don't think I'm going to be finding any deathmatch or bounty recordings, but hoping for hunters or team hunters).

Once I've finished going through my own stuff I'll look to find some good recordings in the TWL archives.
Suggestions / requests are welcome.

Here's a few I've done recently which I thought were pretty cool:

AvA 7Man taking on A E T H E R for #2 on the US 7Man TWL ladder. We went down quite badly on Map 1 and start poorly on Map 2 but then start to turn it around.
Vurt's T2TV shoutcast of A E T H E R's attempt to storm up the Oceanic ladder. TWL shows that A E T H E R were the defenders, but I thought AE was #1 around this time of the competition... can't see any archive of the ladder at this time to confirm what position A E T H E R managed to get to before dropping off the ladder.
Quick 1 min clip of a full havoc with a mission to destroy the enemy gens on Archipelago
Good close map between AvA and AE
Last edited by ColonelBlair on Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:17 pm

you are doing god's work
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Post » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:03 pm

Image
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Post » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:41 pm

Fuck i forgot about the pregame global spam.. classic stuff!
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Post » Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:38 pm

These are some awesome demos. I used to have a HDD full of the <NV> and AE. demos but that has long gone by the wayside.
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Post » Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:05 pm

Perhaps the only competitive map DOTA had
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i83pR7k ... q2pvnjbk04[/youtube]
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Post » Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:41 pm

I won't post demos here as this is CB's thread, and he's doing a great job :)

But for those that want, I have have a better machine now and there's a selection here too :- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz8ulv ... agaYXIww3Q
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Post » Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:41 pm

lol, double post.
Last edited by |A3| on Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:33 pm

I'm happy to change the thread title & you can post here too - keep them all in one spot
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Post » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:43 pm

Nice close PUG from 2006
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Post » Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:54 pm

Ah man, the memories, the feels.

I was watching the iM vs SH match on Minotaur, from the pov of one of SH's HO's and damn, the complexity of Tribes 2 was just so good for its time. How the hell has this not been replicated since? Right there is the details for all you need in an awesome team-based shooter yet nothing has come close. Certainly nothing from the Tribes(or ish) franchise.

Minotaur was one of the least Tribes maps in the list, but check out the complexity of what's going on ingame. Such a superb balance of offence and defence - from HO clearers, light cappers, mediums/heavies in the spawn blocking the forcefields with sensors and cameras. It was just a combatfest where the teams are desperate to hold onto their own flag as much as they're trying to get the enemy flag.

How are there not more games based around CTF? Even from the non-Tribes style of gameplay, it's such a timeless classic form of competetive play.

It just boggles my mind that a development team hasnt capitalised on the complexity and depth of Tribes 2 and turned it into a modern game. Even T:A was a complete fucking fail in that it took the tried and true armours of T2 and turned them into classes. How it took the super speed of T1 and put it in tiny maps, or included base defence elements such as generators in poorly designed bases, or base defence elements with no synergy with the rest of the map / exterior of the base. In short it was a classic case of someone who has nfi what Tribes was all about.

Even Midair is concerning IMO. It looks more like Tribes 1 to me (having not played it), but is layering in vehicles early which reminds me of TA. You either add all of that or nothing. You either focus on the fast CTF gameplay, or you focus on the whole strategic battle which is what made T2 such a different experience.

I honestly have no faith in there being another Tribes game that'll meet my expectations. I dont really care as my time is so limited these days its irrelevant, but as i said above, it just boggles my mind that this hasnt already been achieved. It's not rocket science, there's two perfectly good model games right there - Tribes 1 & Tribes 2, neither of which have had a real competitor in this field since.
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Post » Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:10 pm

Yeah, DJ I feel exactly what yr talking about. It IS amazing that none of the games in over 15 years have even come close to the complexity and fun of the original 2. T/A was better than TV or legions, but even the tiny legends game did better than the others after t1 and 2. Like...if the Dynamix/Garage Games crew were on it, I have a feeling they could move it ahead...but it seems every development team that has come since Garage Games have had to start at day 1.. I can't imagine where we'd be if the Dynamix team had been kept together :[

I will support and play MA regardless as I have hope... And they've made something that feels right in a basic way...but for full CTF balance and broad play-ability they have a long way to go.
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Post » Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:59 pm


That was a good game that i dont remember even playing. Would be good to see a clip from the other team.

Edit:
Ah just watched the other map. I do remember that now, doesnt seem like 11 years ago!
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Post » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:23 pm

I know... 11 years is crazy.
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Post » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:16 am

lol at this play by me :)

https://youtu.be/u6_JpaO9XYM?t=7m24s
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Post » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:41 am

haha yeah I haven't watched the whole thing but I did see that part lol
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Post » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:08 pm

After a long time of searching, and then a significant amount of time convincing... I have managed to acquire recordings on the infamous Tribes 2 World Championship quarter final between Australia & USA West. Yes... the infamous 'flag touches' match.
Big matchup between USA West & Australia in the quarter finals of the Tribes 2 World Championship.
I'm having a bit of a stab in the dark on the date, it'll be in the general ball park... maybe a few days either side.

This match is well remembered within the Oceanic tribal community as the day they were robbed of tribal glory!

At the end of the normal rounds Australia had finished 2nd in Group B and USA West had finished 3rd in the same group. In the first round of the knockout stage USA West faced the 5th placed team in Group A (the Mixed team of Denmark & Israel) while Australia played the 4th placed team in Group A (New Zealand).
That was the first odd part of the knockout stage - With both the top ranked teams getting a pass to the semi finals, surely Australia should play the 5th ranked team in Group A and USA West should've played the 4th ranked team?
Anyway, things went on and both Australia & USA West progressed to the quarter finals. They had met once previously in the tournament with Team Australia winning the first map convincingly (I have a few recordings of this map from different perspectives) and then USA West refusing the play the remaining maps, thus forfeiting the rest of allowing maximum points for Australia.

This time, they were certainly not going to be quitting early.

Each map would be played twice, once on each teams respective server choice, to attempt to eliminate ping advantages.
Both maps were first played on USA West's server choice, and then those two same maps were played on Australia's server choice.

Now for the drama... Team Australia were under the impression that in the event of a tie the game would go to a tiebreak map, as posted on the rules shown on the T2WC website.
These rules are still visible through the web archive here:
http://web.archive.org/web/200112241852 ... ules.shtml
Rule 20B in the "T2WC Matches" section states:
Matches between the two teams will be best of three. If The First two Maps end in a tie, the winner of the third map will be declared the winner of the match. If all three maps end in a Tie, or Team A wins 1 map and Team B wins 1 map and the Third Map is a TIE, the last map is to be replayed repeatedly until a cap is scored. The team that makes the first cap will be declared the winner. (This Rule only applies to Round 2 of the Tournament)

At the end of map 4, each team had capped out / shut out the other team 8-0 on their own servers. According to the rules, this meant the match would go to a tiebreak map. However, at the conclusion of this map the captains were called to IRC and told that flag caps were coming into the equation and that the rules on the T2WC site were wrong.
Hawk would later claim that USA West were informed of this by Suds (a T2WC admin) over their ingame comms during map 1. I have no evidence of this, however looking at some of the in game chat logs it appeared that Vermouth from USA West was aware of the flag touch rule.

Whilst USA West were the beneficiaries of this, the blame appears to lie entirely with MegaBoris & Suds as Beren gave his take on it:
"Case of Captains and Admins getting together to decide on rules. MB wasn't there... Decided version was uploaded to server for all to see. Match happened, yanks didn't like rules so bitched to MB who changed result of match with Suds backing him up cos he is a tard saying that the rules on the server were wrong. When it was what was agreed on for the semi-final. 2 vs 1 vote, them against me. basically totally screwed so MB could have a US team in the final...."
Source: https://bittah.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t ... al#p231943

Looking at in game comms there were a number of players from both teams who were expressing their hope that the rules weren't being changed to include flag touches.
Just before Carveth's recording ends at the end of map 4, the TWC Admin in the game (T-Bone-) states that the game would not be decided by touches... obviously not a view shared by the tournament organisers.
Also of note, while USA West were apparently aware of the flag touch rule, pre map 4 game comms (removed from the recordings) showed they were still specifically aiming to get a cap on Map 4 rather than rely on touches.

So in the end, USA West progressed due to a rule only they were aware of.
The total flag touch tally was:
AU = 66
USW = 72

Personally I think that a better solution would’ve been to have tie breakers like this decided by who capped out fastest.
In this case USA capped out Mino 13:13, AU capped out Mino 17:01 (therefore USA West would’ve won map 1).
USA capped out BR in 20:00, AU capped out BR in 15:19 (therefore AU would’ve won map 2).
The tiebreaker map would’ve then been played with a tie again decided by who capped out fastest.

Team Australia would later receive a public apology from the T2WC organisers as can still be seen on the archived homepage a few entries down:
http://web.archive.org/web/200304121730 ... om:80/twc/
They were promised T2WC t-shirts as some form of compensation (as pictured on the site... not exactly the most amazingly designed shirt ever) which were never received.
Even USA West's captain Vermouth had to constantly harass the organisers to receive their prizes after they went on to win the competition, eventually getting a handful of shirts for their team - I doubt any of the others prizes which were promised were ever received.
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Post » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:43 am

As a little aside, did you guys know Vermouth was/is actually a chick? Fo' Real.

And, also, great job CB on getting all of this down clearly on the record. Down under we are all aware of how team Australia were rule-fucked (with a post match, after the fact, "Rule" being put in place) but your work goes to show the historical record clearly.

I had an offensive demo from USW perspective but I never remember seeing Soulie asking (and being answered) by the admin about the question of "touches" being brought into play. The one I have (somewhere which I can't find now) has the question of touches asked, and dismissed, pre-game in the chat.

Really good effort on bringing the history, shameful as it was, clearly into perspective.

P.S. USE were a better team than USW :P And AU> all
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Post » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:42 pm

I was mostly trawling sites looking for possible links to other T2 demo archive sites, seeing what other community sites I could find, etc. Doesn't seem like there's much left out there.
While doing that I ended up reading a lot about what went down with the T2WC and just threw a bunch of it into an evernote document so I could collate it into something if I ever got motivated enough to do it.
I didn't include it in my essay above, but there were a number of claims that TSN were also pushing for an American team to make the finals so that they would likely get more interest in their cast. This is mostly due to the fact that MegaBoris was a co-founder of TSN and a T2WC admin.
Lots of info in this thread I think... daunt points out he was supposed to receive 'tribes for life' for being a tournament MVP. I don't think that ever happened.
http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/archive ... 4-p-4.html

Now that I've got those demos I can see all the players who participated in that match and maybe I can target them better to find another one. Maybe some are still active on tribalwar. Would be nice to get at least one from an AU player.

Also, had no idea Vermouth was female - was it common knowledge at the time? I have a hard time believing the Tribes scene at the time would've been mature enough to allow a female to captain an international team.
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Post » Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:40 pm

Are you sure she's a chick?
http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=677568

Looks like Vermouth posted a video where they said they did commentary over the top and that voice is quite deep for a girl ;)
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