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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:48 am

Crazy idea that might just fix chasing

So I was thinking about what was said on the tribal council about chasing and the rage perk the other day and one thing seemed to stick. The fact that cappers have the health to nitron three times and then disc once and have 1650 health to transfer into speed because of regen. Where as chasers on the other hand only have 900.

Then I thought what if as an added bonus of rage for 10 seconds (could be shorter if this is ridiculous just an example) you are immune to self damage. You still keep the 25% health gain and the weight loss but decrease energy regain to 25% extra regen + 50% immediate energy.

This would allow pathfinder chasers to use all their nitrons and a disc and catch up, or if the path was going slow for some reason just disc a few times and conserve their nitrons.

It might also allow if the rage perk was increased to half the map roaming d soldiers to chase if the path is coming in their direction or at least attempt to intercept them at their base.

Finally we might see some varied playstyles with chasing pathfinders not using egocentric for quick draw or something and they could even use explosive nitrons for dueling if they were also roaming d. (neither of those are likely but still, I think the remake of this as a whole will add some cool new variety to the metagame.)

So yeah discuss and later I'll post this idea to the official forums with something I feel we could all agree on.

Edit:

Rage ideas so far:
Immunity to self damage for 5 seconds
50% less fall damage for 10 seconds
keep instant health regen
keep lightness
instant 50% energy
change energy regen to 20% extra for 5 seconds
Increase radius of rage start (think this is already happening)

Last edited by Shazbotaz on Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Shazbotaz
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:03 pm

That actually sounds alright, I would simply swap the lightness perk of rage to be no self damage for 5 seconds. Would be disc jumping twice, then you have 2 nitrons (if you're using egocentric + rage) which should allow you to catch up pretty fast.

oodLes
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:32 pm

Does no one else have an opinion on this?

Shazbotaz
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:39 pm

you will still need the lightness to catch the faster cappers, even with no damage there would be too much drag to get going fast enough.

once the radius issues are added it will be pretty much perfect. keep in mind that you don't want to make chasing too easy. the biggest thing that i would do is combine the effects of safefall into rage so that you can really smash up up and away without fear of cratering.

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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:42 pm

Maybe only 20% extra energy regen but 50% less fall damage? Also yeah I think five seconds would be better I didn't really think about them just disc jumping four times then nitroning.

Last edited by Shazbotaz on Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:53 pm

iago Wrote:you will still need the lightness to catch the faster cappers, even with no damage there would be too much drag to get going fast enough.

once the radius issues are added it will be pretty much perfect. keep in mind that you don't want to make chasing too easy. the biggest thing that i would do is combine the effects of safefall into rage so that you can really smash up up and away without fear of cratering.


^

Spot on iagosan.
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:02 pm

i dislike all these perks and arbitrary percentages, it creates a house-of-cards game design of bandaids built upon bandaids that is completely unintuitive to players. "If player A has perk B and is within C metres of event D they gain E% boost to factors F and G for H seconds" is just messy messy game design.
TA is too far into this now for it to change at all but meh, those are my thoughts because you asked for them

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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:18 pm

I dislike them too especially looking at the list I made but the thing I thought about was (a) it only happens when your flag is taken so you deserve more percentages for the fact that the perk is not always active, and (b) as you said the game is to far broken to fix it now. I'd rather a bandaid fix for chasing then the current metagame of sniper shoots carrier light d retrieve flag rinse and repeat. Where the only hope of actually stopping a capper is the sniper. For that reason I'd be willing to have this added to the game just because it could add some fun for the d outside of dueling raiders that try to kill the sniper.

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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:27 pm

Shakey-Lo Wrote:i dislike all these perks and arbitrary percentages, it creates a house-of-cards game design of bandaids built upon bandaids that is completely unintuitive to players. "If player A has perk B and is within C metres of event D they gain E% boost to factors F and G for H seconds" is just messy messy game design.
TA is too far into this now for it to change at all but meh, those are my thoughts because you asked for them


Truth. I remember when the winner of a duel would be the better player.
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:35 pm

danger Wrote:
Shakey-Lo Wrote:i dislike all these perks and arbitrary percentages, it creates a house-of-cards game design of bandaids built upon bandaids that is completely unintuitive to players. "If player A has perk B and is within C metres of event D they gain E% boost to factors F and G for H seconds" is just messy messy game design.
TA is too far into this now for it to change at all but meh, those are my thoughts because you asked for them


Truth. I remember when the winner of a duel would be the better player.


This is getting off topic, its not about winning the duel its about being able to get into the duel cause the person isn't going twice as fast as you can go.
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:22 pm

sure, but if a 300k capper (anything slower and there will be no prob's for the LD to catch up) manages to grab without being spotted / taking a disc to the face / avoid the sniper than then they deserve to make it back.

last thing I want is a super effective disc / multiple nitron's to catch up to the capper and whore them down with the smg...

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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:35 pm

Why not? Generally speaking it is incredibly easy to clear a stand and the only thing the capper has to fear is the sniper. I personally feel skilled players being able to chase and have a chance to chain the capper down is not a bad thing at all. It stop the entire meta game being

Send in raiders to kill sniper and duel light d.
Offense hopefully win. (If not then there is nearly no chance of capper getting through.)
Capper gets flag
Sniper respawns and kill capper
light d retrieve flag.

Repeat. Chasing adds some variety and means the capper now has to learn to duel against people going as fast as them and escorting will be more useful.

And trust me as a capper I'd much rather a skilled chaser chased me down out gunned me and retrieved the flag rather then just getting sniped out. For one thing it gives the capper a chance at defeating the people shooting at you and for another it adds more pace to a game designed to be fast and furious.

Last edited by Shazbotaz on Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:01 pm

I think it would be better to make the cappers choose between health or speed. This could be done by increasing the time it takes for health to regen. A slower capper can be chased, and the faster capper could be killed more easily on the flag stand.

Also make cappers choose between egocentric and reach perks - i.e make them both either primary or secondary perks.

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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:02 pm

Sounds like a good idea to me

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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:31 pm

I have very little experience capping, but the little of it I have done felt like single player. You spend most of the time setting up your route, where you interact with silly physics and the map but not other players. During the grab, if the stand has not been cleared, you will fire a single disc at the HoF, and try to fool them into bodyblocking the wrong way. This 1 second exchange will be the entirety of your PvP experience, as after that, you go back to base at such a speed that you can barely control your movement. Snipers will fire at you, but as your actions have no effect on their chance to hit it may as well be a random chance of being struck by lightning. No one other than snipers will get much chance to shoot at you.

If capping consisted of trying to outrun and outwit chasers, I'd actually enjoy doing it from time to time.

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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:53 pm

DarthBenedict Wrote:If capping consisted of trying to outrun and outwit chasers, I'd actually enjoy doing it from time to time.

Its not like this doesn't happen at all dude, chasing is viable just not as good than the last few titles.. its the backcaps that can be unstoppable, as well are all aware. They've always been tough to stop in all 4 games in the series.
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:55 pm

I like this idea at first glance.. but several thoughts I believe are worth reiterating:

1. As mentioned above, it's a band-aid manipulation to a pretty deeply flawed perk system. I like shakey's house of cards analogy.
2. As mentioned above, chasing shouldn't be too easy
3. As mentioned before a million times, MAP DESIGN. There's absolutely no reason a chaser should be able to catch up to a decent capper by following their exact path. The aim should be to intercept - only this doesn't work is when you have 999999 kph backcaps on every goddamn map. If it's impossible to intercept a side-to-side route at any point, perhaps then chasing needs a buff.

Otherwise it's all just: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_the_second_best

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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:26 pm

The problem with interception though is that it gives you a few split seconds before they are moving in a different direction to you, then you have to stop and wait for energy regen or just k out . Ideally you just wait for the capper to stop going fast or try and beat them to the flag and e grab. There is no intersecting that allows you to quickly change course to immediately begin chasing from interception point.

And yes I know that is because there is no thrust vectoring, but as hirezbart said on the tribal council the best we are getting is percentage changes not changes in the games physics.

And while I do agree with shay's argument I actually didn't find his analogy that good, for one thing A is just pointless because its basically naming the player which is necessary for every scenario imaginable in the game (at some point or another). For another everything fun in the game is based upon what the player decides to do during events based on what they feel are the most viable options. Therefore C and D are actually good things not bad things and finally C, E, F, G, H are all redundant and trick you into thinking he has a lot of good points where he only has one.

And yes map design is terrible.

Also agree wholeheartedly with Darth, capping apart from designing new routes, learning new routes and playing around with routes in game is incredibly boring.

Final point as a capper I use side to sides all the time and barely ever die to anything other then the sniper. Generally speaking its only when I backcap that I get chained to death (not exactly chasing but the closest we have to it). However this is all from pug experience so I don't really know how that compares to comp play.

Edit: If I seem really defensive its not because I don't respect your opinion or agree in parts its just because I'd rather people actually commented on what they thought of my idea not what they think of hi rez's map design or why you hate bandaids fixes or whatever other irrelevant info you want to add. If it seems I'm being defensive on what you are saying that is relevant its just because I want to continue the discussion and hear what your views on my views are not because I think your wrong and should gtfo.

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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:07 pm

Shazbotaz Wrote:Edit: If I seem really defensive ....


Not at all, good ideas and good posts.
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:38 pm

fix the radius issue + add safefall. back caps are chaseable (particularly on a lot of people voicing their opinions in this thread).

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